Jesse Becker - All Comments

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jeremy Bond — Fri, 24 May 2019 05:49:22 GMT

Things that we attain from black market or grey market are those that we usually cannot get our hands on in the main market. So it is an understandable fact that these things were not meant for your region so they provider has to take measures to make sure its not traceable. We need to straighten these facts and we also need to learn about how to make a website of we are interested un being a SEO.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 20:06:53 GMT

Now _that's_ scary.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Robert Volz — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:38:19 GMT

Post Katrina, a van pulled up in front of my restaurant. It had Louisiana plates. They were selling well known wines, Silver Oak, Mondavi Reserve, Opus One, Etc for unbelievably low prices.

I pointed out the plates on the car. Total denial. I asked that bottles be opened. Not a chance.

I sent them packing.

Made me wonder though, which Portland restaurant ended up with this crap and how many consumers were duped into buying cooked wines.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 02:25:29 GMT

Thanks John.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

John Aranza — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 02:15:33 GMT

Great article

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 12:45:53 GMT

Thanks Bret.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Fri, 01 Mar 2013 12:45:32 GMT

Michael, I think you're right that certain producers could do more to monitor their distribution. I think many small producers would do more if they could but I can just imagine a vigneron in Burgundy or Germany needing to tend to their vineyards and lacking the time, resources and skills to track down bottles in far off places. In the case of the négociant you mentioned, it would seem they've chosen their own path of distribution and there's probably little reason to offer the wines to your customers. Thanks for adding to this discussion. Good points.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Anonymous — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 05:36:55 GMT

Jesse, thanks for the feedback, I understand what you are saying and thank you for the article, some great points have been brought up in the comments.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Michael Baker — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:33:08 GMT

Thanks Jesse - I appreciate the role of the importer/supplier - they are my partners, and their work allows me to do what I do.

As a retailer that prices competitively and buys three-tier exclusively, I'm on Winesearcher constantly. I come at this discussion from a retailer's perspective. There's one California operator that has built an entire business on gray market sales. These guys are at the top, and they do it very well.

When it comes to gray market retailing, I have some issues with the producers themselves. The most sought after German and Burgundian estates come to mind. While it's not practical for these folks to know where every bottle ends up when it leaves their cellars, it seems that repeat "victims" would want to take some sort of action. I've read very little about growers concerns on this front. If they're using technology in labels and boxes to track shipping temperatures and prevent counterfeit sales, you'd think they'd mine data for agreed upon distribution. I don't have high expectations for changes here, at least not now.

My biggest issues are with national importers that are also producers. One large Burgundy grower/negociant, that also owns a top tier Chablis property, as well as a Champagne house, regularly appears on e-offerings from the famed California retailer mentioned above. The retail prices offered are usually at or below my cost, sometimes dramatically so. I would think this negociant, because they uniquely control their distribution (at least in the US) would have more control, especially considering this retailer most likely also buys through traditional channels. When I've asked this producer's representatives directly, they shrug their shoulders and say they're working on it. As a result, I tend to steer clear of these properties.

The future of fine wine distribution will be very interesting - I'm sure many things will change in my lifetime.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 03:11:50 GMT

Thanks Victor.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Victor Valdivia — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 01:56:31 GMT

Great article! Well written!

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 21:04:41 GMT

Thank you Paul. Point taken re: Bordeaux.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Jesse Becker — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 20:33:23 GMT

Bill, all good points regarding old and rare bottles though auctions and consignment are other options (pros and cons there too, of course). Re: financial and storage limitations of restaurants. Definitely agree recognizing that importers and distributors are absorbing inventory and tying up cash as well. I guess I'm advocating for a more holistic and sustainable approach. In my experience, the stronger our relationships with importer/distributors and producers the more they'll bend over backwards to service the needs of the account.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Paul Coker — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 18:57:24 GMT

Jesse,

Great article and something that has been on my mind a lot lately. Thank you for pointing the spotlight on this issue.

I'm not sure about other states, but here in California it is almost necessary to purchase high end Bordeaux from the gray market. Most of the 'legit' distributors/importers have pulled out of the high end Bordeaux market. Outside of high end Bordeaux it has probably been 5+ years since I have purchased anything from a gray marketer.

That being said, I feel there are relationships to build with the legitimate gray marketers. The one that I use the most I have had a relationship with for about 7 years now and have built trust through that time with them. The other two that are on my radar for purchases have relationships with me and/or my company for at least that long.

One of my regulars and someone who has spent exorbitant amounts with me through on-premise and off-premise recently had his collection appraised/checked by a major auction house. They found nothing fraudulent in the wines that he had purchased from me and the companies that I've worked with. (I was pretty pleased getting the affirmation under someone else's dime and it definitely made me feel more confident with the gray marketers I've been using...)

In our market, the gray market is an almost necessary evil, but a valuable tool when used wisely. I like Sun Tzu's quote from the Art of War: "If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." I guess the moral is tread wisely, and do what's right for your guest.

RE: Buying Wine from the Gray Market

Bill Elsey — Sat, 23 Feb 2013 05:29:56 GMT

Great feature Jesse and thank you for taking the time not only to compose this piece, but to respond in the discussion, which adds greater insight to the article. In my initial years as a buyer, I had the mindset that I didn't necessarily care as to the means of how I obtained a wine, just as long as I was able to source the wine and it was in sound condition. Over time, I have grown to agree with Jesse's sentiment that the grey market can serve as the quick fix to sourcing certain wines. Support for a producer or a portfolio within a community is key, even if it is from only a couple of wine buyers & sommeliers. There is no doubt that certain markets have greater access to particular wines; those who receive the most of a certain allocation have likely been the most vocal and successful in supporting a certain wine over time. My current suppliers and distributors are absolutely essential in helping me source wine that is either not in the market, or highly allocated within the state. I have worked to establish relationships with them, their brands and importers, in order to (and with some success) get access to highly allocated wines. These relationships have taken time to develop and I anticipate these relationships to continue to build in the future.

With that said, I do feel that one redeeming aspect of purchasing from the grey market is the ability to purchase wines that have age to them. I have been fortunate to develop great relationships with significant collectors in my area and they have provided tremendous access to bottles that have approximatley 10+ years of age and have been stored under ideal conditions. In a city like Austin, even with a thriving economy and growing culinary scene, few wine programs can assume the financial commitment to not only purchase the inventory, but provide the correct conditions to develop a cellar program. With the program that I have been working to build, having access to these collectors older bottles not only serves a great benefit to the depth of my cellar, but also provides a service that my distributors can not fulfill. In my position, that is a very positive aspect to grey market buying.